Default timeouts are quite low.

[johnnylee]

(0.9.5) I've been using Caddy as a reverse proxy to provide tls, logging, and gzip to back-end services. I was seeing seemingly random file upload failures with code 502 and an error message client disconnected in the log. Eventually I figured out that the requests were timing out.

I think the solution is to have either higher timeout values by default or an explicit log message when a timeout occurs.

Thanks,
JohnnyLee

[tobya]

@johnnylee Was there any timeout message in your -log destination? Can you post here?

[mholt]

The default timeouts are set at what they are because, in my local testing with a slowloris tool, they were the values that mitigated the effects of the attacks the best. Raising them will make servers more vulnerable to resource depletion (depending on exact system configuration and specs).

I hope that people are reading the release notes before they upgrade.

Timeout events should be logged, as @tobya mentioned. I see log messages mentioning "timeout".

And like I've said before, this seems to be frustrating to a number of people, but I don't know what's worse: being frustrated because it's secure by default or being frustrated because your server is attacked with slowloris. I'm not sure that slowloris attacks are common, though, so I'm not sure what to do. Secure by default is kind of the Caddy philosophy...

[johnnylee]

@tobya - There wasn't any message in my -log file. The only message was from Caddy itself, which was the client disconnected message:

Feb 20 14:26:39 ip-172-30-1-19 caddy[9448]: 20/Feb/2017:14:26:39 +0000 [ERROR 502 /u/398994285254414337/] client disconnected

I think if it were logged, then it wouldn't have been an issue.

[pwaller]

I don't know what's worse: being frustrated because it's secure by default or being frustrated because your server is attacked with slowloris. I'm not sure that slowloris attacks are common, though, so I'm not sure what to do.

It's a tough one. Particularly if you're on the receiving end of a problem and it's not blindingly obvious what is wrong (see #1422).

It seems a tough tradeoff. As a visitor of the internet, I have a 4G mobile connection and I work for a couple of hours from the train every day. Will this timeout prevent me from downloading large files from caddy servers when my internet connection is running at 10kiB/sec for a few minutes before returning to 100-1000kiB/sec? If so, that's quite annoying.

[pwaller]

@johnnylee "The only message was from caddy itself", you mean, caddy was proxying to {another app}, and {another app} sees caddy disconnect. But caddy itself doesn't make it clear that the client timed out? Yeah, I hit that too over in #1422.

[johnnylee]

@pwaller I mean the the application didn't log anything at all. As far as I can tell the request never reached the handler of the application. The message was in my /var/daemon.log file (caddy run via systemd).

[pwaller]

Please ignore me. I missed that that this was happening during uploads.

[mholt]

@johnnylee So Caddy logged "client disconnected" but the application did not log anything?

The "client disconnected" message is emitted when an HTTP/2 connection closes: https://golang.org/src/net/http/h2_bundle.go?h=http2errClientDisconnected

My tests were with plain HTTP, so HTTP/1.1, which emitted a "i/o timeout": https://golang.org/search?q=timeoutError

[johnnylee]

@mholt That's correct. I put a log message at the top of the application's handler to see if it was being called, and it didn't show up in the log. I would guess it has to do with some buffering occurring during the proxying process.

[mholt]

@pwaller Your point is still valid, the timeouts are for both reads and writes, uploads and downloads.

It's difficult to distinguish between genuinely slow networks and slowloris clients.

The humanity in me thinks that Caddy should not have timeouts by default: assume that clients are benevolent, and that slow connections are just slow networks. In a sense, this serves a greater population that does not have access to high speed internet (even in urban, developed areas, like cell networks). Slowloris attacks are probably much less common than slow networks.

Slowloris is a type of DoS attack. Frankly, Caddy can't prevent DoS attacks (especially DDoS). No web server alone can really do that. You need something like Cloudflare to mitigate those.

One possibility in the future of "default timeouts" would be to have a "smart timeout" feature that kills connections that are uncharacteristically long or have unusually low transfer rates (connection duration vs. transfer rate are different! - one measures flow of bytes over time, allowing big file downloads, the other is just a timer). This might be a safer default, but not always. So the site owner might still have to disable timeouts.

On the other hand, the smaller part of my thinking is stubborn. It says that Caddy is secure by default and should keep the timeouts.

But I think I might disable them for default for now.

[pwaller]

One possibility in the future of "default timeouts" would be to have a "smart timeout"

I suppose the thing about Slowloris is that it allows one attacker to starve a server with just one measily low bandwidth net connection. If that's the attack you want to defend against, you could also do so by limiting the number of long ongoing connections from one source. This needs to be done with care because sometime entire countries can be behind an IPv4 address. So one needs to think carefully about what it is they are trying to defend against and how that might harmfully impact harmless use-cases. But maybe there is a useful metric which distinguishes slowloris-style problems.

Another style of thing that could be done is to make the timeout dependent on the resource utilization. For instance, if we only have a handful of connections (let's say, 100), that's no problem, we can sustain those. But if we have 10,000, maybe that's time to say "sorry, right now we're not handling longer requests".

A problem with such an approach is that it is somewhat magical and could lead to things breaking in a way that is very hard to diagnose.

[tobya]

Is there a possibility of a set of presets such as php for fast cgi that sets particular values

E.g.

Timeout secure

Or

Timeout strict

Which would set values to prevent slowloris attacks, this would allow for a simple alternative to defaults

[mholt]

@pwaller I agree, I like simple better. I'd have to give it a lot more thought before anything else gets implemented there.

@tobya I guess, but saying timeouts 10s is basically the same thing and less obscure.