Cross platform UX for .NET 5

[4creators]

.NET Core does not support directly any desktop or mobile UI. It was designed and implemented without such a goal at least up to v2.1.0. Nevertheless, it is a feature which potentially may expand usage scenarios very significantly. It is one of the oldest and most voted up features on Visual Studio UserVoice as well.

• Bring Windows 10 Universal Apps to Android and iOS 3 658 Votes

• Create a Ubiquitous .NET Client Application Development Model 11 213 Votes

Microsoft and Xamarin jointly own an XAML based UX code stack (WPF, UWP, Xamarin Forms, WinUI) which could form a basis for .NET 5 UX stack. Unfortunately, work on XAML-Standard has stalled despite that IMHO it would be a good place to make decision about UX in .NET 5.

Even more important Microsoft Fluent Design could be adopted in Core UX at least on Windows if not at least partially on other platforms. This would put .NET Core on bleeding edge of modern, universal xplat framework development. Currently I would prefer to run Microsoft Fluent API based app on my Mac. It was quite different at Windows Vista and 7 times (I work daily on both Mac and Windows).

One of the most important requirements would be a hardware support. Providing that MSFT and Xamarin currently use DirectX and OpenGL based technologies one should be able with significant investment create modern hardware accelerated graphics/media cross platform backend. This would as an additional benefit allow for providing modern graphics API as an alternative to outdated System.Drawing API resurrected for .NET Core v2.1.0

Related not only DotNet issues:

Port System.Xaml to .NET Core

Include WPF in the standard (XAML Standard)

Port Winforms to CoreFX

XAML Standard scope discussion

WinUI 3.0 roadmap - we need your input!

WPF, WindowsForms and WinUI (UWP XAML) are open source !!!

It's good time to start porting them to other platforms

• https://github.com/dotnet/wpf

• https://github.com/dotnet/winforms

• https://github.com/Microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml

Last updated 2019-05-20

[KPixel]

I like this idea. However, practically, it is something that is more likely to be handled by the Xamarin.Forms team.
Maybe, the Core team would contribute some low-level constructs to make the UX framework "better" (like what CoreFxLab does).

Edit: Could WebAssembly also become a supported platform?

[galvesribeiro]

I like the idea. I've seen people (including myself) suffering with multiple UI technologies for multiple environments.

I'm pretty sure in a foreseen-able future we will see .net core ported to Android and iOS devices using the Native application as a replacement for corehost. With that being said, UI capabilities will be required.

For 2D xplat Drawing libraries (including Accelerated drawing), we have Skia for example.

In all scenarios, I believe XAML-Standard will be a good thing to move to in order to achieve an standard way to "describe" UI all together with the Fluent Design guidelines.

However, I'm skeptical that there are any plans from .Net Team to invest time on that more than just bring some xplat System.Drawing.X primitives back...

[JimSEOW]

@4creators Perhaps this discussion is of interest to you

[poke]

@vibeeshan025 WebAssembly is not a replacement for JavaScript, so most of your comment does not really make any sense. You will still require JavaScript to connect a WebAssembly with the DOM. So, no, you cannot just compile something into wasm and expect it to replace whatever you did before with JavaScript. That’s not how it works. It won’t be a UI technology.

[offbeatful]

Hey guys, just want to put my 5c here.
System.Drawing.X is essential for .NET Core development. (just came here from https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20325)

As of UI - ask web (front-end) developers. They use a lot of modern tricks like hot reload.
I personally like how things are progressing around React/ReactNative. It would be awesome to use C# to write React and then use various render engines for different platforms.

[Mike-E-angelo]

FWIW, Mono is adopting WebAssembly, so if it works in Mono, it works (or will work) in WebAssembly. That's the present idea/understanding, at least.

Also, I have to echo the sentiment on the probability of .NET/MSFT accomplishing this task. All of their focus/IQ has been placed into core/internals/framework/just-get-it-working and I think it will be this way for another year or so. But who knows, I could be (pleasantly) surprised.

My take on this is that some external effort is going to gain the momentum and perhaps get purchased by MSFT, ala Xamarin, but more UI-focused (as opposed to framework/tooling-focused, which is Xamarin's core strength IMO). So, something like Avalonia or Noesis, which offer their value proposition via open source and paid channels, respectively. Incidentally, both of these are built-on/support Mono.

[4creators]

Xaml Standard has moved a bit with release of XAML Standard (Preview) for Xamarin.Forms and long overdue update on project progress. There is a very interesting discussion in PR dotnet/designs#111 about project goals which seems to be going in direction benefiting this proposal

[badre429]

Silverilght is great solution the code already exist

1. Open source silverlight code
2. Makte it run on top of dotnet core runtime
3. use moonlight for linux distribution
4. create dotnet core alternative for "Electron" it willl eath the world (less memory usage + huge perf improvement+ xaml goodness)
5. native compliation (if one day corert project see the light)

[gulshan]

Found it relevant- http://platform.uno

[vibeeshan025]

@gulshan Interesting, Great project, Is it supporting most of the UWP feature, How they were able to implement such a rich set of featears in a very small time with just 4 contributers.

[galvesribeiro]

@vibeeshan025 they have a company funding it IIRC...

[gulshan]

Another future worth exploring- HTML/CSS + .net(instead of JS/TS). Already being tried here-
https://github.com/SteveSandersonMS/BlazorElectronExperiment.Sample

[CatGirlsAreLife]

After researching it seems tcl/tk could be a gui option for all platforms. Not sure if tcl/tk when on Windows invokes the actual gdiplus stuff but it might be a option to bring WPF and Winforms to Linux, Mac, Windows, Android?, iOS?, And maybe webforms? Not sure if tcl/tk supports those 3 last ones yet. If it does this makes the GUI hell much easier to maintain with a single code base on it.

Possible GUI libs to use:

• TclBridge (does not seem to be free or open source)
• the Mono one (probably the best maybe)
• Eagle (not sure how good it is)
• Maybe others as well.

I got the idea of using tcl/tk from cpython's tkinner module.

Also not sure if .NET Core supports loading resources from *.resources(compiled resx) or even from *.resx yet. If it does it would be great.

[4creators]

Microsoft.DesktopUI.App currently v3.0.0-alpha-26921-3 is available with daily builds of Windows .NET Core SDK. I am curious what would be needed to get it up and running on Linux under some translation layers for GDC and DirectX.

[Bartolomeus-649]

It need to much more than cross platform UX, it need to be a cross platform application development framework.
To limit it to only the UX is a mistake. It should at the very least have all the functionality of SilverLight + RIA-Services.
When you write huge custom systems for larger companies that will live on for decades, you need to keep all options open since you have no clue what requirements will be added in a year (or in 10 years), so a closed down and limited environment like UWP will never be considered, the same with something running inside a browser. There has to be full, unlimited and native access to every single feature, API and service on the different platforms.
And when you develop a system where you write both the server and the client, then you don't want to use REST or something like that (which is intended to be used when you write the server, and someone else writes the client), instead it should be in the spirit of RIA, where you define the server API and then automatically just call it form the client using the same (===) classes and methods as those on the server. Everything need to be strongly typed. Data validation starts with the hard limits obtained from fields in the SQL server (or whatever data source you are using), and extended by DataAnnotations, which are propagated all the way to the client automatically (taking localization into account).

This is what is needed, nothing less is acceptable:
Create a Ubiquitous .NET Client Application Development Model

It is now 20 years since Visual Basic 6 was released, and we are nowhere close to the productivity we had then in 1998.
Microsoft need to present their vision on how a larger custom system should be done in a "Microsoft world", and how they will bring back the productivity we had 20 years ago.

Microsoft need to get their shit together and step up and accept the responsibility they have. Microsoft need to realize that all their customers, partners and developers that has invested heavily in MS technology for decades are deeply disappointed and their trust in MS is very low. MS need to start respecting their customers, partners and developers and rebuild their reputation and respect, but seeing what they now are doing with Skype and how they treat their Skype customers and users, I have little hope this will happen.

And forget about Xamarin, Microsoft don't even use it themselves, and rather go for a single threaded memory-hogging framework like ElectronJS framework (based on Chromium, Node.js, JavaScript and CSS), than use Xamarin, which they own and have full control over, and which would produce real native code for each platform.